lacals - partying, dancing ?!@

[algren]

teh abaya stuff has become a mockerey these days..many gals do giv wrong signals even abaya..but then this cant be aplied to every1. Its just that sum bitches tarnish teh true image meant for abayas..

[Mayflower]

These 'burqa ladies' may look weird to you, but in the eyes of their beloved, they are honoured / cherished/ loved , why ? because they are concealing themselves from other men, and keeping themselves pure, and beautifying themselves soley for their husbands, and thats all that matters.

Well said shaakira,
Hope someone is listening. usually i get confused why the west consider the lady with cover in islam as being oppressed and forced to do so, or that it is unjust for her, while in the church the sisters do the same in addition to being "married to the christ" and they don't question or object to that.

but i think the above argument is wrong - comparing sisters and burqa ladies ... isn't there a huge difference betn. sisters in church covering themselves and the burqa ladies? sisters choose that kind of life by their own willingness, while ladies here are forced to wear burqa even if some of them dont like it!

iam not offending anyone and i am not against wearing burqas - but i would rather like it if its a individual choice and not forced on any one under the name of culture!!!

[Choko]

I have to agree with Mayflower, Nun's choose their way of life and take their vows and orders, just as the Monks do who also wear traditional robes. It's a totally different thing.

If women choose to wear the burka, abiya etc then it should be their choice. The thing that always gets me is when you see a women covered, yet the guy with her wears whatever he wants where's the difference. If the woman is made to wear the above, I think the man should also wear national dress.

[yshimy]

Ofcourse the drinking and smoking part are abhorent, downright disgusting (no offence to the non muslims!)
We have fem only parties where we dress /dance and just have fun,
but as soon as we leave, we 'coverup'.
The best of both worlds, but within the ' law'. :wink:

Mayflower and Choco,
Does Shaakira sounds like a one forced to it???

have to agree with Mayflower, Nun's choose their way of life and take their vows and orders, just as the Monks do who also wear traditional robes. It's a totally different thing.

Why you assume most ladies were forced to it?? I don't know a single lady was forced to it and kept it for more than few months. So don't assume rules based on oddities.

Choco,
By our religion the lady should cover herself in a certain way and the man too in a certain way (not burqa', not galabeya, only from belly button to the knees is enough). IT is not about culture so the traditional is not a must for a religious man.

By the way, Even if you object to such difference in dress code which got its reasons that this is not the forum to list them all, but if the lady agree to be in burqa' (which is the case in 99 % ) and she agrees her husband dress in whatever he wants (which is not something banned by islam) why would the west or anyone objects to it????
why western or non muslim ladies objects to something that the muslim lady accept???
anyway, i'm not expecting answers, but i just sometimes wonder.

You might know a lady who is in burqa' and she was forced to it, and i know prists who were accused of child abuse, and bin laden is terrorist, and the guy who bombed the WTC in Oklahoma was christian, and Jews are killing people in palestine, and and and and....

Notbecause bin laden so all muslims are terrorists and not because some prists you assume all are perverts and not because zionists you think all jews are as such.

So don't generalize, not because one gurl don't like it you assume all were forced to it.
Don't assume wrong things please.

[Mayflower]

i know not one lady, but a bunch of them who hates to wear burqa but r afraid to voice their views in fear of ostracism,

but shimy , believe me - iam not against islam, iam against the blind beliefs and bias in all religion and i used to voice my condemnation against some hindu religious fanatics too back at home.

if a woman does wear burqa by choice i agree with it totally. why would anyone say anything against it ... only when the factor of compulsion comes in, i feel pity for them ...

[GoodBai]

Yshimy.... I have a very simple question for you:

Do you believe that women everywhere in the world should have equal rights with men in all matters, such as religious, domestic, business, political and social???

[Choko]

Yshimy,

I never said women were forced to it, I don't assume anything about it, why did you get that impression? But you brought up a valid point in your post about the amount of coverage. It does not say in the Koran that a woman must be covered from head to toe - so why do it? As you said there is a certain requirement.

I'm not against it, please don't think me so narrow minded. My mother always had to wear an abiya when we lived in Saudi so I'm well aware of things.

But I always think it's a bit odd when you go to the beach or where ever and the guy parades around in swimming trunks staring at all the other girls, but the woman is all covered up etc etc. I actually find this very disrespectful to the woman.

And you'd be naive to think that there aren't women who're forced to cover their heads. I know of many women who never had to wear it, but as soon as they got married they were pressured by husbands family to wear it, so where is the choice?

Trouble is you think this is all new, it's not! In Victorian times it was taboo for a woman to show any flesh, dresses had to come all the way upto the neck and go all the way down to the floor, you couldn't show an ankle or anything like that.

You'll find that many religions will have their followers dress in a certain or modest way, it's not just Islam. And no one is criticising it wither so please don't take it that way.

You know I also belive that everyone is entitled to worship in whatever they feel is good for them. If you're a christian I don't think you have to go to church to pray - it's just bricks and mortar, do it whenever where ever you like.

And please don't generalise by saying 'The West'! As there are many nations, cultures, tribes whatever who have no religion, choose not to believe in anything or have never heard of any.

[yshimy]

if a woman does wear burqa by choice i agree with it totally. why would anyone say anything against it ... only when the factor of compulsion comes in, i feel pity for them ...

I totally agree with you Mayflower.
The reason for this forcing, is that some families wrongfully think that by doing that, their girls will show as a "respectful" but on the contrary.

In my life i met ladies who were very liberal in cloths who were zillion time more respectful than some ladies in burqa' , abaya, or hijab.
The dress was never a sign of respect, BUT it might be a sign of specific ideology or lifestyle or belife.
But i totally agree with you. and moreover, i think it is bad to force ladies to do that, because it is harming all the society and the islam image, first the lady is harmed by being forced and she will have alot of problems. second the islam image is being bad as these girls will do things when they can and it will be shown as Muslim ladies are bad.
It is like in a football match and a guy with man united T-shirt hit someone. we say that a Man United fan did it, not Mr. Micheal did it.

So, i'm totally against forcing, totally with your point and finally we agree on something.

It is freedom, and it should be by free will.

It does not say in the Koran that a woman must be covered from head to toe - so why do it? As you said there is a certain requirement.

According to my knowledge (might be right or wrong) but i'm 99% sure. The Muslim scholars agreed on 3 requirments for the dress 1) doesn't reveal, 2) not transparent (show what is under) 3) not tight to give inWakerleyation of what is under it (tight)

Personally (many scholars agree with me) i belive women should cover up from head to toe, except her hands and face (there is a hadyth (prophet say) about that but some say it is weak say).
But i belive in that for many reasons, it allow women to interact like in university, or in day to day life and you can know who you are talking to. For security, well some people used burqa including men to do crimes in some parts of the world. and For identification, so i can see who i'm talking too.
I know many respecful ladies who are dressed in Hijab, who are very modern and trendy in their cloths, and go out and interact with people and career orianted, and i really wish to marry one of these ladies who grabbed the best out of both religion and life. When one of them pass by me, i ask god to grant me such respectful wife that would brought my kids up the same way and i don't have to worry after my children's morals.
If one of them wanted to wear burqa' i still can't refuse (Assume i have a call) as it is their choice and their life, even if they are part of my life.

This was my opinion, and my interpretation of my religion. i have my own mind which is backed up by many many respectful scholars.

And please don't generalise by saying 'The West'! As there are many nations, cultures, tribes whatever who have no religion, choose not to believe in anything or have never heard of any.

Sorry for not being accurate, i assumed when i say the west, i ment the (western media) or the American society, which is still vast with different beliefs, Aslo the western europe countries, still very vast.

But I always think it's a bit odd when you go to the beach or where ever and the guy parades around in swimming trunks staring at all the other girls, but the woman is all covered up etc etc. I actually find this very disrespectful to the woman.

Disrespecful to which women?? the one with bikini the guys staring at, or the ones in burqa? If the guys with the lady in burqa' it is not disrespectful to her, nor the lady in bikini, but to the man himself who is looking, cause he got a jewel and still looking for another. That is greed
I see some ladies here in Australia sunbath topless, but i really don't mind, it is their call. I think i might mind if i got children though.

Anyway, i think we agree on some points.

Cheers

[Choko]

Hey Yshimy,

You made some good points. I think it's one of those topics that can go round and round.

Personally if a woman is doing it out of respect for her religion and beliefs then that's cool. But to me it's not fine if it's being forced upon someone, that's the only objection I have.

[yshimy]

Totally agree and consent. So it will not go round and round.

That is the shortest post i have ever did.

[jacky]

I really enjoyed the last few posts, that was a good debate,

....yes i know my post really adds no value

[shaakira]

Very well explained yshimy